[Madcruzer]

Apparently some Raiders have been shipped with crossed coil wires. Mine may be one of them. Can someone with access to a service manual help me verify. I need to know the color coding and which cylinder is #1 (front or rear). One of the coil wires on each side is labeled "2". I would assume that both of these coils should go to the same cylinder. Any help will be appreciated.

 

[PA1195]

Here's what the 2008 Service Manual says about the coil wiring for the XV19CX Raider:

Rear cylinder (#1) left and right coil wires are Orange=power, Black/Red=ground.

Front cylinder (#2) left and right coil wires are Green/Red=power, Black/Red =ground.

Gary in Fairbanks

Edit: The coil fed by the #2 Green/Red primary wire should have it's spark plug wires going to the front cylinder (#2).

 

[Madcruzer]

Thanks Gary, the wires on the right side of my Raider were crossed. It still ran ok but didn't seem to have the "OH S*!T BETTER HANG ON" factor on the low end.

 

[PA1195]

Fine business and good to see it's fixed...must be that Yamaha varies the timing between cylinders based on some sensor input...maybe links intake manifold pressure or some preset timing differential between cylinders to an ignition timing map, why else would it run poor at some engine speeds?

If the timing varies between cylinders, then with crossed coil wires on one side of the bike one spark plug would fire different than the other, and affect power from that cylinder.

The answer's out there somewhere, but not mentioned in the manual that I've ever seen for the Liners or Raider.

Gary in Fairbanks

 

[raider113]

Looks like mine are crossed as well.

A couple of pics attached. Two from the service manual.

First one shows orange wires to components 25 and 26, green/red wires to components 27 and 28.

Second pic identifies 25 and 26 as cylinder #1, 27 and 28 as cylinder #2.

Third one is the right side of my bike, with green/red wire labeled #2, hooked up the cylinder #1 coil.

Seems to be a common problem

 

[PA1195]

Weird they'd do that with the wires numbered...checked mine and both sides ok.

Now the fun begins...will Yamaha issue a Service Bulletin?...may be an issue by S/N...mine's 3706.

Folks with the problem should call their Dealer and at least tell them, even if it's already fixed.

Still can't figure why it runs poor when wires are wrong unless it;s tied to timing somehow, but I'm not about to switch the wires to find out...hopefully no damage done.

Will call Yamaha tomorrow and stir the pot, as that's what it took for them to fix the FJR ECU running problems.

Gary in Fairbanks

 

[raider113]

Gary,

My serial number is 2092, lets see if we can find a pattern.

 

[PA1195]

Good idea on the S/N...maybe folks with a problem can post S/N...I don't think there's any harm in doing that...I will call Yamaha Customer Relations tomorrow at:
(800) 962-7926, press "1" for Star Specialist.

They might just be limited to a batch run.

Often the manufacturer will be unaware unless several complaints come in...they like the Dealer to call their Regional Service Rep I've been told, but either way I feel they should gin up a Bulletin as long term ops may cause engine problems that they may be liable for fixing under warranty.

I'm curious exactly what the symptoms are, so tomorrow I'm going to cross my power wires on the right set of coils and go for a short scoot to test...I guess some have complained of lack of power...are there any other symptoms I should look for?

Gary in Fairbanks

 

[Madcruzer]

Where do I find the 4 digit serial number?

 

[PA1195]

It's on the bike's Registration - last four digits - and on the right side of the forward frame where the steering head bolts on just below the steering lock, or on the white emissions sticker on the very front of the frame behind the forks.

I've tried to get a call through the Yamaha Customer Service twice this AM to report about the crossed wires some have had but they have put me on hold forever...Mondays at the Star support phone must be busy.

Gary in Fairbanks

 

[Madcruzer]

#0176 wires were crossed.

 

[matto]

my serial no. is 1702 and my wires are fine.

 

[boatwrench1]

#0177, wires are fine..... hey madcruiser, looks like we have brothers.

 

[WaRaider]

191 wires are fine

 

[PA1195]

Just got off the phone with Yamaha Customer Relations at (800) 962-7926, press "1" for Star Specialist...I talked to a Specialist and reported the issues noted both here and on other Forums regarding the Orange and Green/Red ignition coil primary wires being crossed on some bikes...and noted the poor starting and running below 40 mph.

Before he'd answer I was asked for the second time in a week for my VIN and mileage (he fills in the form when we call)...the person I spoke with looked at the online Yamaha known issue database, and noted Yamaha has nothing regarding the coil issue formally on file.

He suggested owners that have experienced running problems, that may or may not be related to the crossed coil wires, contact their Dealer and have them duplicate and identify the problem...the Dealer is then to contact their respective Service Rep and file some sort of notification so that Yamaha can be made aware of the issue.

So, if I were so troubled I'd at least call my Dealer, explain the problem, and let them report it to Yamaha...otherwise there will never be a Service Bulletin or whatever they call it at Yamaha generated...calling Yamaha Customer Relations as I did may not generate a Service Bulletin, if I understood correctly what the phone guy said, it takes a Dealer to initiate the Bulletin process.

I asked if Yamaha used differential cylinder ignition timing for each plug for a given cylinder (as a potential source of poor running with crossed coil wires), and was told to contact my Dealer for that information, as they will then call their Tech Rep for clarification...and that's why I believe they now omit that type of info from the Service Manual we all read, maybe just to force us to work through their system for any technical information.

On another note, I asked him if installing Yamaha's optional Speedstar pipe (like I had on my Stratoliner) without an additional fuel controller (PCIII, etc.) would harm the engine, and would the stock ECU fuel the engine properly without damage (I already had an answer from Yamaha in 2006)...his response was that the Speedstar pipes were designed for full throttle racing, may not work in street applications, and therefore weren't recommended unless my Dealer said so :rant-rave:.

Gary in Fairbanks, and I'll let it all go for now with a big laugh.

Edit: Called my excellent local Dealer and their Service Specialist, explained the above stuff, and he told me the same thing as above...we talk to different folks than do the Dealers, and if there's a problem, it's best to have the Dealer file a complaint as it gets fixed sooner within their system than if we do the contact with Yamaha.

 

[Mr. T]

OK.... is someone willing to give me a step-by-step on how to check this out.. cause I have no idea.

Thanks

 

[Blue Angel]

Me too and I have the service manual. I can not locate this coil wires in service manual either. Pls explain where these wires are and how to find them

Thanks

 

[PA1195]

See the fifth post from the top above for pics...the coils (2 on each side) are located under the fake-o air cleaner covers on each side of the engine...most have reported problems with the Orange and Green/Red primary power feed wires being swapped and on the wrong coil on only one side of the engine, the right side I believe.

Correct is Orange on rear (#1 cyl) and Green/Red on front (#2 cyl) coil on both sides of the engine...the Black/Red wires are the coil grounds, only go on the coil one way, and can be swapped without harm between coils as they are a common ground.

Because of the nature of V-twin four stroke engines, Yamaha feeds the spark timing differently to each cylinder over a 720 degree crankshaft firing cycle (two 360 degree turns of the crankshaft and four vertical piston strokes)...this is because with a single pin crankshaft and two V cylinders spread 48 degrees, when the front (#2) is firing slightly before the top of it's compression stroke, the rear (#1) is almost 48 degrees ahead (the angle between cylinders) on it's 720 degree cycle and starting down on it's exhaust stroke, and when the rear is firing on it's compression stroke, the front is 48 degrees behind, but still on it's exhaust stroke.

Intake, Compression, Power, and Exhaust are the four vertical piston strokes of a four stroke engine...there is quite a bit of overlap between combustion cycles because of intake and exhaust valve timing, but each stroke takes up approximately 180 degrees of crankshaft rotation, depending on the configuration and timing of the camshaft lobe.

So a coil wired wrong setup like some have had results in only one spark plug igniting the fuel/air mixture per cylinder instead of the normal two, and results in a wasted firing for the spark plug fed by the coil driven by the wrong primary feed wire, compared to the coil on the opposite engine side that is correct.

If all four coils had their power feed wired reversed, the engine would not run, as all plugs would fire near the top of the exhaust stroke with the exhaust valve open instead of on the compression stroke with all valves closed...there may be flames but no power.

The plug fed by the wrong wired coil fires on the exhaust stroke instead of the compression stroke...the spark is wasted but harmless, and combustion is not as efficient as when both plugs fire closely together near the top of the compression stroke for each cylinder...dual firing plugs per cylinder can contribute to combustion efficiency, and delay the onset of harmful detonation...this in turn allows Yamaha to safely raise the cylinder compression, advance the ignition timing, and vary the fuel injection timing and duration to suit emission standards while still producing good power.

I think this is right, but please feel free to comment as I've been wrong before.

Gary in Fairbanks

 

[LoneStarRyder]

Hi all,

I have good , and bad news.

First, the good. I read this post last night. AWESOME information, and right on time. My bike is currently at the Dealer for it's first service, and, as suspected by PA1195, I had complained my bike was somtimes harder to start AND had intermittent sessions of running rough, mainly in 1st-3rd gear, trying to maintain slower speed/lower RPM's (of course, still not lugging the engine lower than 1000 RPM's).

The service Rep advised the Tech to check my coils wires, using the info from THIS site, and they too were reversed.

Did I mention you guys, and this site ROCKS!

OK, the Tech took it for a ride, says it runs "nice".

The service Rep says he had checked with "Mama Yama" last week, and they hadn't rec'd any complaints at that time, and I believe him. But, he also relayed that today when he spoke with them, they mentioned something about a "small bulletin" advising to check for this.

I can't wait to pick my bike up now and see how it runs.

The bad news, for me only: if you read my earlier post about the tappet blocks "seeping" at the bottom where they sit on top of the block. Well, part of this tech's ride was to see if they're still doing it. Of course they are. So, now I have to wait even longer to get my mits on my bike. Oh, well. I told the service Rep I'd rather have them hold on to it, get it right and then let me take her home. Like I said before, I had the exact same issue with the brand new '02 Road Star I'd bought from the same dealer in '02, they replaced gaskets and I never had a problem again. That bike now has approx 30K miles. I know because a friend I ride with bought it from the dealer I traded it for an '02 Venture.

I'll quit rambling.

Kepp the info coming, and if stumle on any Raider stuff, like the DG Hard Krome pipes I'll be sure to post and let ya'll know. Knowledge is power...no RAIDER is power...Ok, a knowledgable RAIDER rider is power!!!

 

[eian31]

2093 and mine were reversed as well. on right side only