Man Down!

[Crazy Rick]

No disrespect intended by me on this post. I am very sorry that you went down and hope the cage pays big $$$$$ to you.

On the laying it down theme, I think you already said that you didn't lay it down but it went down. That is what is almost always the case when anyone says "they had to lay it down". The real story is rather that they stomped the rear brake, lost control from the skid and went down out of control. Don't ask me how I know this. Been there done that.(1972)

"The fact is" your tires and brakes have way better stopping energy than that of your leather ass, elbows, knees, etc. All bikes should have anti locks but don't. Almost all cruiser type bikes don't have enough front brakes to get you in trouble on a dry road. Anyone that "had to lay it down" but didn't even slide up the the car could have stayed on the bike and stopped. They simply put too much rear brake into a PANIC stop and busted their butt.

Lets all learn from this and practice our braking skills.

ALL BIKES WITHOUT ANTI LOCKS WILL LOCK THE REARS AND PUT YOU ON THE ASPHALT.

This is why. Lets think about what happens when braking ANY vehicle. As the bike or car is slowed down the weight is transfered to the front of the bike. MORE weight equals MORE TRACTION. So the faster you stop, the MORE TRACTION you have on the front and the LESS TRACTION you have on the rear. And on our bike we also have a BIG FAT LEG to push that rear brake with. BAD COMBO!! Be afraid of the REAR brake, not the front. Control the stop with the front, adding what you can to the rear.

Heck, the sport bike guys can raise the rear wheel off the ground anytime they want. How much traction is there on a tire thats not on the ground?

Use both, but think about what is going on when you do. I try to ALWAYS go for the front brake FIRST at every stop to train that action to be what happens in a panic stop. By first, I mean just a split second ahead of. I do this because whatever you do on a NORMAL stop is what you will do in the panic stop. I reach for the front to control the rate of stop and add some rear to help out. The front will safe your BUTT, the rear will hurt your BUTT. Both used right is the best.

I am not an instructor or anything like that. These are just my thoughts on the subject. I have never taken a class of any kind but have been riding for over 40 years with just that one crash on the streets. And boys and girls, I haven't been riding what we might call "safe" on the streets. So take it with a grain of salt, but do practice your stops.
CR

[Drekkyk]

so I hope I have learned to atleast stomp on the rear rather than just the front.

Please do not do this. Practice using both, but more braking from the front. Coming from the sportbike world, I was surprised at how much I use the rear brake on the cruiser. The brakes are much bigger on the rear on a cruiser, and more effective with less force. But, in a panic stop, you should be ready to use both effectively. This means showing restraint and not locking it up which will happen if you "stomp".

[BLAZEMAN]

I took the avanced ABATE course .. this is a very good course, and worth every penny ... according to their findings,and in their training book. you will find that up to 70% of your stopping power comes from the correct use of the front brake.. this is mainly because of the weight shift to the front of the bike as you brake.. just as when you accelerate it shifts to the rear. With this beening said, if you are afraid of the front brake as many people are, then your chances of avoiding collision using just the rear brake is as bad as 30%, not so very good?? I practice pannic stops out on lonely roads when there is no traffic.As it has ben said before, what you do in a normal stop you will probably do in a pannic. Therefore learn to apply the front brake gently and then the back in a normal stop.Get to know your bike, and it's stopping ability before you realy need it. PRACTICE PANNIC STOPS TILL YOU MASTER IT!!!! You should be able to come to a complete stop as quickly as possible with out locking the front or rear brake, it takes practice, but you will be glad you learned this skill..dont lock the wheels this is not safe, and will lead to a uncontroled skid as well as inefficent braking, and if you lock up the rear wheel,and release it,(on pavement) you will most likely high side your bike!!! Also, in traffic expect the unexpected, I always ride with my fingers rested on the front brake, in the yellow to orange zone if you will. Take a riding course the cost will be far cheaper and a whole lot less painfull than the accident you could have avoided!!!

[cwa]

I am 46 and have been riding all my life, and yes I have crashed on my own and with a car. For the new riders , if you don't know how to use your front brake, you are in trouble, practice, please.

[JuJuBee]

I have been ridding a good majority of my life even if the majority of that has been dirt bikes. Tonight while I was on my way to a gas station I made the mistake of not looking far enough ahead and layed my bike down. Did quite a bit of damage to the left side but I walked away from the accident. To make the long story short I had a lot less road than i thought. There was a curb and turn I wasn't expecting and while i was still coming up to speed my gear saved me. I will be without my bike for a while so it can be repaired but please heed the warnings and always wear all you gear. Including helmet even if not required ie. Florida.

[1Cruiser]

I'm sorry to hear you laid her down but I am glad you walked away. I hope everything is okay with you. Bike can be build.

[BirminghamRed]

Glad your OK.Keep in touch.
Let us know how the repairs are going.
Did you have engine guards?

[JuJuBee]

No engine gaurds and I'l be posting some pics in a few. I tore her up but thanks to some good gear just a little road rash.

[LS2PWRD]

I took the avanced ABATE course ...

I didn't realize that ABATE had their own curriculum... Stopping quickly is a skill that is taught in the Basic Riders Course as well though.

I would also recommend against covering the front brake at all... The argument that doing so saves time is not valid... However think about anytime you were put into a panic situation (unexpected action required), how did your body react to it... More than likely your body will tense up due to the sudden stress initially, causing your fine motorskills to not be so fine... If you are covering the front brake when a situation arises for you to have to use them than you are far more likely to GRAB the front brake resulting in locking the front wheel and losing control. Your initial reaction the stressful situation is probably going to be a sudden jerk or tightening your grip, the last thing you want to do on a motorcycle is to suddenly grab at the front brake or squeeze it too hard too fast.

[BLAZEMAN]

Like.. I said, PRACTICE IT.. till you master it...The instructor I had was no doubt a seasoned rider .. clamed to had over 30 years of riding experience. He had a full dressed Harley, and handled it like second nature.. Again, panic stops should be PRACTICED till you are very confortible with it. it takes time, and PRACTICE!!! He said when in heavy traffic HE likes to rest his fingers on the front brake, and ride in the yellow to orange zone of awareness. I think he knew what he was talking about. Also a big percentiage of accidents happen in residentual areas... as people are just not paying much attention to their driving, more about just looking around at yards, cars, houses,etc., and not where they are driving.. again, watch for cars coming out of driveways be ready to brake...Your extra awareness will help account for their lack of awareness of your presents around them, and remember, YOU WILL LOOSE, in an accident,reguardless of whose to fault..

[rodders vsoc]

sorry to hear that mate, get back in the saddle soon

[NJRich]

you know how bad this is??when some ?'{{:' does NOT pull out to cut me off, I've gotten in the habit of nodding "thanks" to the driver...We're so
sure we're going to get slammed, we are actually surprised when it does'nt
happen...Feel better soon, man/Rich

[DogBite]

Hey Raiders!

I thought I should give an update regarding my own progress after my failed experiment with riding the Raider upside down. The bike has been repaired and is better than new. It rides wonderfully and there is no hint that it was once damaged. The dealer did a really great job.

It proved to be an astoundingly expensive exercise to do all the repairs. Fortunately, I got the driver who caused the accident to pay for everything that had to be done to the bike, and even got him to pay for a replacement helmet. (If you don't have insurance, think about getting it--replacement parts for the Raider are costly.)

As for me, I'm pretty much OK. I'm riding again. Still get pain in my right hand and my left shoulder plays up if I have to work on something above my head. But physically I'm pretty much OK. I want to get the metal work taken out of my hand; that should help the final phase of the healing process. I value all the support from everyone. Thank you.

This thread has also transformed into a very useful forum for discussing accident-related themes. Hopefully we all learn from it.

There is still plenty bite left in the dog!!

DogBite

[alsmith_54]

Hey Raiders!

I thought I should give an update regarding my own progress after my failed experiment with riding the Raider upside down. The bike has been repaired and is better than new. It rides wonderfully and there is no hint that it was once damaged. The dealer did a really great job.

It proved to be an astoundingly expensive exercise to do all the repairs. Fortunately, I got the driver who caused the accident to pay for everything that had to be done to the bike, and even got him to pay for a replacement helmet. (If you don't have insurance, think about getting it--replacement parts for the Raider are costly.)

As for me, I'm pretty much OK. I'm riding again. Still get pain in my right hand and my left shoulder plays up if I have to work on something above my head. But physically I'm pretty much OK. I want to get the metal work taken out of my hand; that should help the final phase of the healing process. I value all the support from everyone. Thank you.

This thread has also transformed into a very useful forum for discussing accident-related themes. Hopefully we all learn from it.

There is still plenty bite left in the dog!!

DogBite

good to hear Dogbite!!! take care man

[BirminghamRed]

Good to hear your getting back to normal.
How long before you get the metal out?

[golpwr8r]

Glad to hear things are looking up for you, and hope you keep the rubber down. How about some pics of your ride. I'm really glad you got back on the horse, when I went down I repaired mine on crutches and trade it back in when I got it finished. I was in my twenties then though.

[DogBite]

How long before you get the metal out?

There is no medical need to remove it, so in theory it could stay in forever. However, it hurts when I do any kind of heavy work with my hand and I figure that having the metal removed will make a positive difference. I need to check with the orthopaedic surgeon.

Thanks for the interest.

DogBite

[bflyer]

Glad to hear you are doing better. The road to recovery can be painstaking but as long as you are making progress AND still riding life is good. After my accident I look at every day as a bonus.

I had taken the MSF course. I was riding with all my gear on including a full face helmet. I do my best to pay attention, scan ahead, be aware of drivers at intersections, side streets, driveways, parking lots. Anytime I see a car that could potentially cross my path I squeeze the clutch and cover both breaks for the few moments it takes to make sure the car driver is not going to pull out in front of me. I can tell you for certain that I never saw the car that pulled directly out in front of me until it was too late.

He/she turned right in front of me going in the same direction. SO I'm on a two lane road travelling at about 50 mph and suddenly on the bumper of a car. Brakes would not have assisted in avoiding the car as I was a few feet away travelling considerably faster. So instinct and maybe training cuased me to swerve first and brake second. I immediately swerved right then left completely missing the car, taking me off the right side of road, then hit both brakes. That's when I saw the mailbox. The accident happened must faster than my explanation. Apparently I took out the mailbox though I don't recall anything about the accident.

I woke up in the hospital, dislocated shoulder, every rib on my left side from my armpit down was broken, my lung punctured. Four days in the hospital. Three weeks later an operation to repair my lung, more time in the hospital. Not much fun.

I am thankful I had all my gear on including the full face as I was broken up but did not have a scratch on me anywhere. The condition of the helmet after the accident convinced me to always were a full face.

My bike was totalled and the driver never stopped. I could have easily given up riding at that point, but three months after the operation I had purchased a new bike. I've logged about 15,000 miles on that bike and just recently purchased my Raider.

It's difficult to explain to the non-riders but riding is a passion and life is too short. I ride every chance I get, commute to work most days, and plan long distance trips any time I can take the time off work. I'm even more diligent now then prior to the accident but hardly a ride goes by without someone pulling out in front of me, not using turn signals, braking too hard...etc.

Keep that cushion between you and traffic, prepare for the worst when near other drivers, and remember that we are invisible!

Glad to hear you are recovering!

[GriffiX]

I love this ....!!
The community so strong and all pulling in together!
This is what F'n FTW is all about! .... that's 'Forever Two Wheels' fellas!
To all that have 'beef'd it'.... May you all be able to sit that a$$ down on a 2wheel'd beast again and enjoy the open road!
Cheers mates!

[B&S raider]

I understand your pain bflyer, i just recently totaled my bike out a car slammed there brakes in front of me and all i could do was hit mine and from there all i can remember was the ass end sliding and then i flipped over the bars into a field and the next thing i know was a guy holding my head and saying dont move, come to find out after leaving the first emergency room and the next day going to the VA was i had a mild concussion and a collapsed lung along with the shattered collar bone that i knew i had then had to spend 3 days in the hsop and probably many more weeks to come doing physical therapy oh what fun but like you said riding is a passion and i will never give it up

[bflyer]

Sorry to hear about your crash.
I was not allowed to even drive my truck, let alone ride, for a few weeks after my operation which was about 7 weeks after my crash. Nevertheless I got in my truck and drove to my local dealer and was sitting on bikes before I could even extend my left arm forward enough to grab the handlebar. Three months after the crash I had a new bike and was riding.
It sucks to be involved in a crash but take your time and recover - sounds like you'll be riding again in no time!

[B&S raider]

oh yeah not even a month avfter the accident and i am going to look at a new bike as soon as the idiot insurane company gives me my money, i am glad you are ok to and happily back on a bike riding

[Matt St. John]

this might not be any of my business, but the cager picked up your medical bills also right?

[Zeus]

Hi DB

I wish that it would all just get better, but maybe some of it has nothing to do with the accident and everything with age creeping in.

I am now convinced that if I wake up without some pain I must be dead.



Ride safe.

There is no medical need to remove it, so in theory it could stay in forever. However, it hurts when I do any kind of heavy work with my hand and I figure that having the metal removed will make a positive difference. I need to check with the orthopaedic surgeon.

Thanks for the interest.

DogBite

[ozzy]

Man I feel for those who have been down.
It was once said there are two kinds of riders, those who have been down and those who are going down.
With that said, I unfortunately have been down...
I was riding an old wore out CB650 Custom.
I took off from a light making left and the foot peg fell off without my knowledge. So when I went to put my foot on the peg I stepped on the rear break locking it up. Down I went rolling across the pavement. I can still remember watching the foot peg rolling away.
Call it a coincidence but, I was putting 5" forward controls on my new Raider and found the cotter key for the roll pin that holds the break shaft to the break lever was too small! The cotter key fell right out of the pin on disassembly...
I am really glad I bought the forward controls and found this error...
So the moral of the story is to check your gear...

Ozzy

[grallen1]

Bikes can be replaced.

Good Riders can't.


Glad your still with us.


Grallen

[Zipper]

Gee I know how you all feel.May 21 I went down on my 1100 v-star classic.The guy ahead of me decited to lock up his brakes so he could make a left turn.After seeing I could not stop I let off the front brake and locked the rear and put her in the ditch.I do think I came out ahead with the broken ribs and closped lung and messed up sholder.
Like they say if you ride be ready all the time ...0 the bike has been fixed and been back on it many times

[DrJohn]

I, too, wish only the best and quickest recovery to all of you that have put a bike down. Three years ago a 16 year old "new" driver ran a stop sign and pulled out in front of me. Unfortunately, the bike was totaled, but by the grace of the man upstairs and friends riding behind me I was just blacke and blue from stem to stern, but no one ran over my sorry butt while I was laying in the road. I, too, am a former MSF instructor that taught to expect the unexpected, but it happens so quickly. You who have gone down, bless you and have a speedy recovery and you who have not, please be extremely careful.

[Rickyd863]

I have read this complete thread and am glad that everyone is still with us.

I wish to share my little incident.
When i didn't tide my bike to work, i ride it a 12 mile route when i get home.
I had just left a stop light on my 03 meanstreak. A boy driving towards me decided to turn left , into the mini market that is on the corner. I do not remember anything until the day I was released from the hospital. This is what I have been told . I hit the passenger parking light and my front forks actually broke completely off the bike. I was suddenly about 20' in the air and landed about 50' away.
I had a 3" skull fracture on my right side, a small hole in my skull on back right, about size of little finger nail. But due to the inpact, my brain was bruised in 2 places on the left front area of my brain. I also had blood and fluid on the brain. I was also told that The docs dis 4 or 5 scans on me that night because of the fluid. I also had a broken and dislocated big toe. I had no other breaks or scratches. I walked out of the hospital 2.5 days later. It took about 2 months for the fluid to finally dissipate on my brain. I then went to a friends and rode my old vstar down river road, during rush hour. This was my way of checking myself out. I loved it. This was my first time in riding with out a helmet and my last. I sometimes switch between calling this a miracle or just lucky. Either way, i am here. As I am glad everyone that I have read about are too.

It has taken me 4 years to find a bike that was equal or better then my meanstreak. My raider is definitely better.

Rick