Raider vs Fury

[vmaxxer]

First of all ... I doubt seriously this is Hal from Direct Line. Hal Greenlee from Direct Line is a sponsor of RaiderPerformance.net and has done some really cool stuff for the Raider.

If you want to really get at this guy, then attack him on his turf. He is well adept at accepting comments then re-focusing them as not intelligent to the focus of the topic. He incites comments without a real position, so he can ALWAYS be on the offensive with his retorts.

If I wanted to shut this guy up ... I would simply ask him what makes his opinion on industrial design worth listening to. Does he have a degree in the field? Does he have a background in art? What credentials does he posess that allows him to be an authority on the aestechtics of either motorcycle?

Forget about whcih bike is better, attack this guy where he sits. Perhaps a comment that a 240 rear tire (which he says is one of the downfalls of the Fury) - robs power, uses more fuel, and uses more rubber and petroleum to produce. He is nothing more than a hypocrite that wants to show his superiority by roping people into a discussion they can't win (because they have already been roped).

[Jmac]

This is the best part of that whole stupid argument IMO. I don't even know why you guys are arguing with that asshat, but it's fun to read at times.

SINCE THEY ARE IN TROUBLE NOW.


GM, Ford, & Chrysler


INTERESTING...maybe the country should consider bailing them out to some degree(~$10 MM Max! )Nothing needs to be said... Ford, Chrysler and GM's contributions after 9/11An interesting commentary...You might find this of interest:CNN Headline News did a short news listing regarding Ford and GM's contributions to the relief and recovery efforts in New York and Washington.The findings are as follows......1. Ford - $10 million to American Red Cross matching employee contributions of the same number plus 10 Excursions to NY Fire Dept. The company also offered ER response team services and office space to displaced government employees.2. GM - $10 million to American Red Cross matching employee contributions of the same number and a fleet of Vans, SUV's, and Trucks.3. Daimler Chrysler - $10 million to support of the children and victims of the Sept. 11 attack. 4.Harley Davidson motorcycles- $1 million and 30 newmotorcycles to the New York Police Dept..5. Volkswagen - Employees and management created a Sept 11 Foundation, funded initial with $2 million, for the assistance of the children and victims of the WTC.6. Hyundai- $300,000 to the American Red Cross.7. Audi - see VW8.

BMW - Nothing.9. Daewoo - Nothing.10. Fiat - Nothing.11. Honda - Nothing despite boasting of second best sales month ever in August 200112. Isuzu - Nothing.13. Mitsubishi - Nothing.14. Nissan - Nothing.15.. Porsche - Nothing. Press release with condolences via the Porsche website.16..Subaru- Nothing.17. Suzuki - Nothing.18. Toyota - Nothing despite claims of high sales in July and August 2001. Condolences posted on the website .Whenever the time may be for you to purchase a new vehicle, keep this information in mind... You might want to give more consideration to a car manufactured by an American-owned and / or American based company. Apart from Hyundai and Volkswagen, the foreign car companies contributed nothing at all to the citizens of the United States ... It's OK for these companies to take money out of this country, but it is apparently not acceptable to return some in a time of crisis. I believe we should not forget things like this. Say thank you in a way that gets their attention.. ++++ Pass it on, I just did. ++++

Very good info.

[MYWORLD]

+1!!!

[Rummy]

Too slim, too dainty. Looks to much like a girl's toy. Why in the world would they drop in a 1300 vtwin when they have an 1800 sitting in the shop? It's not all about the looks. It's about the ride and definitely about the horsepower!!!!

[Swomack]

The stock rear tire is not a 240 just so you all know it is a 210

[Rummy]

Actually, I was talking to the local dealer and it's not a 210 but a 200/50 18

[busajack]

I was thinking it would be a good start but the shaft screws up anything you try to do to the rear. Bet someone comes out with a belt or chain conversion for it within a year. $$$$ Mabey we could sell our old 210s to new owners.

[PiNkPaNtHeR]

Buy what you want, ride what you want, and be the person you always wanted to be. If you wanna ride a crotch rocket or V-Max, or BMW 100 RS or whatever, do what you want. It seems that I'm seeing some attitude from Raider riders that "we are the best". This is what the HD riders have done for many years. Having owned and ridden Haarleys, I know what it's like. People tend to be proud of whatever they own and ride.
BUT

There's just one little thing that always sticks in my mind. One of my high school math teachers Mr. Henkel) used to call it "Proof by intimidation". Basically, the premise is that if 100 people think the right answer is "A" and only 10 people think the answer is "B" then obviouly the "A" people are right, right? Wrong. The correct answer is still the correct answer no matter who thinks what.

Well, hell. There are a lot of good bikes out there. Many of my friends ride a VTX, Harleys, Dressers, Sportsters, Honda Shadows (I also own one), Buells, and a lot of other bikes. There isn't one single bike that's best of everything. I'm proud of my Raider and I don't vare if anyone likes it or not. Who knows what will come of the Fury - or any other new introduction. Maybe some will have advantages. Maybe they won't. Are we all going to get our panties in a bind 'cause of what one person thinks?
I'm not goint to lose any sleep over it. I fugure if I'm lucky, I'll get to ride one and check it out for myself. I will NEVER regret buying the Raider. This is the coolest inanimate object I have ever owned and keep in mind that I like my Shadow Spirit 1100 better than I liked my '77 HD Lowrider - and that was a good bike! Shaft drive and liquid-cooled is cool - if it can be packaged in a good way. I think Honda did a good job on both the VTX and the Shadow. I'm not going to run out and buy a VTX just because it's liquid-cooled or shaft drive, though, if you catch my drift.
So - the bottome line is this:
We have options. Options are good. If you want a HD, great. If you want a M-109, great!. If you want a Honda VTX or fury, great!

Let's ride.

[Pep]

Buy what you want, ride what you want, and be the person you always wanted to be. If you wanna ride a crotch rocket or V-Max, or BMW 100 RS or whatever, do what you want. It seems that I'm seeing some attitude from Raider riders that "we are the best". This is what the HD riders have done for many years. Having owned and ridden Haarleys, I know what it's like. People tend to be proud of whatever they own and ride.
BUT

There's just one little thing that always sticks in my mind. One of my high school math teachers Mr. Henkel) used to call it "Proof by intimidation". Basically, the premise is that if 100 people think the right answer is "A" and only 10 people think the answer is "B" then obviouly the "A" people are right, right? Wrong. The correct answer is still the correct answer no matter who thinks what.

Well, hell. There are a lot of good bikes out there. Many of my friends ride a VTX, Harleys, Dressers, Sportsters, Honda Shadows (I also own one), Buells, and a lot of other bikes. There isn't one single bike that's best of everything. I'm proud of my Raider and I don't vare if anyone likes it or not. Who knows what will come of the Fury - or any other new introduction. Maybe some will have advantages. Maybe they won't. Are we all going to get our panties in a bind 'cause of what one person thinks?
I'm not goint to lose any sleep over it. I fugure if I'm lucky, I'll get to ride one and check it out for myself. I will NEVER regret buying the Raider. This is the coolest inanimate object I have ever owned and keep in mind that I like my Shadow Spirit 1100 better than I liked my '77 HD Lowrider - and that was a good bike! Shaft drive and liquid-cooled is cool - if it can be packaged in a good way. I think Honda did a good job on both the VTX and the Shadow. I'm not going to run out and buy a VTX just because it's liquid-cooled or shaft drive, though, if you catch my drift.
So - the bottome line is this:
We have options. Options are good. If you want a HD, great. If you want a M-109, great!. If you want a Honda VTX or fury, great!

Let's ride.

While I'm inclined to agree with you, the opinions here are merely guys defending the bike they love from an unfair and unwarranted public attack.
Comparing the Fury to the Raider is like comparing a PT Cruiser to a Mustang GT.
The Fury is in a class by itself. It's not a "power cruiser", it's a . . . . . . . . . .a . . . . . . . .a . . . . . . .chopper wannabe. It's not designed for the seasoned rider. It was made to draw those who are beginners or who aren't interested in true torque and power. I think Honda did a great job on the Fury up to a point. As most everyone else has said, if they would have installed an air-cooled push-rod large displacement motor with a fat tire and a belt drive the could have hit a homerun.
But instead they went after the guys whose bike tastes are all about looks and have little interest in performance. However, I believe they have set the groundwork for other metric manufacturers to follow suit and perhaps build that first "power chopper". Until then I'm quite satisfied with my Yamaha.

[john]

When I first saw the Fury, after someone posted it on this site, I thought it looked somehow like a skinny praying mantis.... What do I know?

There really is no comparison between the two bikes...even I know that.

I agree that Honda is trying to take this bike to a new audience of entry-level riders who want to ride a chopper looking bike and at the same time not break the bank account.

I remember back in the late sixties when Honda was flooding the American market with their bikes, they were relatively cheap and they caught the interest of the babyboomers. Today those same people are closing in on retirerment and they may just want to get themselves a scoot to ride on.

One interesting thing that I found out back in the day, was that the size bike the Japs were selling us, were prohibited for use on Japanese roads because their size was considered too dangerous.

[Rummy]

I agree with Pep, if you're going to compare one ride to another, do it right ! Main Street Choppers did an article here about a year ago, that compared 3 bikes, the Rocker, Jackpot, and Raider. All similar vtwin cruisers with large displacement, motors. It was fair and factual which compared looks, fit and finish, horsepower, comfort, and price. The Raider blew the competition away hands down. If someone is going to compare bikes, compare like bikes. Apparently the guy or gal who wrote the article, never swung their leg over a BIG vtwin and then went throttle up!!! Ride what you want, but don't disrespect what I ride unless you have the horsepower to back it up.

[tomvmax]

I'd like to know what the big problem is with plastic body parts on a motorcyle. Plastic has been used on sportbike fairings and cycle body parts for decades. Is this some kind of a macho thing, "Steel is cool, plastic is for sissy"s"? Sounds like something a Harley rider would say. Its that "Macho Harley" mentality that kept cruisers in the dark ages until the Japenese started building these bikes to perform. If you want to go down the "Who needs plastic on a bike " road, then "who needs 100 foot pounds of torque"? Or "who needs 85 HP" ? WE DO! Get with it. Plastic weighs less. The less your bike weighs, the better it accelerates, turns and stops. Plastic looks the same as steel after painting, and will retain the finish as well as steel.

Advantages of Plastic over steel:

- Plastic weigh's less
- Plastic wont rust
- Plastic wont dent

I'd like to know what advantage steel has over plastic for the body parts on a motorcycle.........

[Grumpy]

I'd like to know what advantage steel has over plastic for the body parts on a motorcycle.........

First off let me say plastic (composite) does not bother me (i.e. the fenders from Raw Design), but......off the top of my head; metal doesn;t flex so easy and cause paint to crack/spiderweb...kinda depends on the paint too though.

[mjccd]

Wow just for grins I went back and looked at this site again..."Hal" is still at it, but now he is threatening to delete anyone's comments he chooses, especially if they question his experience...waah! Someone needs to get back on their meds!

[mjccd]

I couldn't type this fast enough once I read the post by AlXRaider so here it goes.

Although I have to say I do like the looks of Honda's new FURY one thing is for sure on a couple of things that will kill this bike if they are trying to compare it to the Yamaha Raider.

First Thing
A 1312 CC VTX engine verse a 1854 CC Raider engine.

Second Thing
Plastic everything, That's right guys plastic.
Plastic fenders, plastic chrome engine covers, Plastic LOL
I still can't even believe it but plastic doesn't belong on a bike as far as fenders and chrome.

Third Thing
Shaft Drive with liquid cooled motor.
I am not ready to give up a belt drive or have a bike with a radiator on my bike.

Far far away it does look like a cool bike but up close when you realize that everything is plastic it is just plain funny.

Nice try whoever wrote that story but "GET A CLUE DORK".

I can't stop laughing so I better stop.
LOL
Later
Swomack
SoCal "RAIDER" Rider
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Metal Sled
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I am a fan of Honda's products, and they do make great stuff but I think they missed the mark on the Fury.
I am a big fan of their dirt bikes.
A picture of my second beast


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A picture of the Honda Fury



Plastic Sled LOL LOL LOL
The fenders and engine chrome on the upper engine is plastic. LOL
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Looking at those pipes, they look a little thin. Wonder how long before they blue (or is that the color they were going for)

[uncle guido]

well, might as well stick my 2 cents in here... Personally I think Honda is on to a good idea with the fury, but as with all bikes, it will fit a certain group of people that are looking for that style, ride and performance... sooooo, to make it simple, I dont care for it, but then again, someone else may, and thats cool with me...
I bought the Raider because I liked almost everything that it has to offer, and its that simple... Fury aint my thing, Raider is....
I DO wish that Raider did a little finer "fit&finish" on the welds on the front neck.....it would look much more refined if they did that in production...
aah, there I go again, being pickey....
if some sweetie is riding a Fury and she wants to ride along with me, aah, lets see, am I gonna say no?...Hell no.....

uncle GUIDO

[TennesseeRaiderRider]

I read all of Hal's blog and this guy doesn't have a clue. Sure the Fury looks nice, but I haven't ran into anybody yet that has had one negative thing to say about the way my Raider looks. Most of the time I ride alone or with my wife on the back and 1300 cc's just wouldn't get it done here in the hills and mountains. It would be like riding a moped after getting used to what the Raider can do. And I did not want a water-cooled engine when I chose the Raider. As for the chromed plastic covers on top of the engine, in the long haul, I don't think they will stand up to the heat. Even Harley guys respect the Raider, but I don't think they will respect the Fury. As for Hal, this guy is not very smart since he can't seem to see both sides of the story.

[Savesomeup]

I am glad I set off a little Raider pride with my original post about this guy. It just really got under my skin that he would call the Metric Bike of the Year a piece of junk. I would love to catch him out on his little fury one day, he wouldn't be able to hear it running beside my V&H Big Raidus pipes! HA! If I was concerned about gas mileage, the environment, a bug in the Amazon, I would live in a tent and burn candles, eat veggies, and make everything out of HEMP!

[Jhubb408]

Reminds me of my 2007 Honda Shadow 750 (sold it).

[LunchBox]

Do you think the Fury will wind up at your moms next Tupperware Party?

LMAO

[PiNkPaNtHeR]

well, might as well stick my 2 cents in here... Personally I think Honda is on to a good idea with the fury, but as with all bikes, it will fit a certain group of people that are looking for that style, ride and performance... sooooo, to make it simple, I dont care for it, but then again, someone else may, and thats cool with me...
I bought the Raider because I liked almost everything that it has to offer, and its that simple... Fury aint my thing, Raider is....
I DO wish that Raider did a little finer "fit&finish" on the welds on the front neck.....it would look much more refined if they did that in production...
aah, there I go again, being pickey....
if some sweetie is riding a Fury and she wants to ride along with me, aah, lets see, am I gonna say no?...Hell no.....

uncle GUIDO

Just a quick note on welding aluminum. It's not the same as welding steel. When aluminum is welded, it actually gets more brittle (due to the intense heat) and the joint isn't as 'strong' as the parent material. There are actually welding methods that weld a section & then leave a section to be welded later because too much heat in aluminum will absolutely destroy its strength. If you were to go in and grind it smooth and polish a welded aluminum joint, it would actually lose as much as 20% of its strength at that point. So - for those of you who are considering it, I suggest you talk to someone who knows more about this than I do. My experience is strictly from a design point of view - I design ships/yachts & pretty much anything that floats whether the owner wants it constructed of steel, aluminum, or composite. They all have their advantages and disadvantages. I've never actually welded aluminum, but I've welded steel & been around aluminum welding for more than 20 years.

[uncle guido]

Pink, thanks for the 'heads up' on the welds... never thought of that... will have to do some research with a welder buddy of mine... Glad you alerted me to that...

GUIDO

[Craig B]

A company called cruiserfx makes chrome neck covers for the
Raider @ $100 per pair.

[NJRich]

Nice trophy case...Rich

[Swomack]

Man that is the funniest comment I have heard to date.
LOL
Later
Swomack

[vintagecar1957]

[busajack]

Its a good start and with a blower will outrun the raider. Think of someone buying an OCC pile of shaking crap for 65 grand thinking what they could do with the Fury. Look at new bikes with some imagination. You didn't bring the Raider home to have it look like every other Raider out there. I don't like the fury eather but will be fun to watch guys cut them up.

[vintagecar1957]

Jack, I'd LOVE to see what YOU would do to a Fury!
Now that would be something!

[Swomack]

OK so I just touched a silver and the dark flat gray Fury and I take it back it is almost all plastic. To be fair the gas tank is metal. LOL

[busajack]

Do ya know why the Hayabusa and ZX14 and all the 1000cc sport bikes are the fastest thing on earth? Because they'er all plastic. You younger generations better get use to plastic because the're aint gona be any steel left when your my age. Want fast and good mileage, lighten things up. Thats why aircraft aren't made out of steel.
The latest airbus has a wing box made out of carbon fiber. When you take a crap it goes through plastic PVC) with lots of advantages over cast iron.